Troy Houghton: The Minuteman

Caresut: I'm a full professor. The last thing I've got is TH's DNA.
AK: I'll see what I can do. It's a great offer, and I am grateful for it.

TH was Z. If you understand what I've presented here, there can be no doubt whatsoever. Everything fits TH. It can't all be a coincidence.
I haven't even looked at this case for months and months. I've been busy writing my third book (I have an advanced contract with a February 2013 delivery date for the manuscript).
Anyhow, I checked in today because of the Lafferty book news. So I find the above cipher on this board -- a cipher whcih I haven't seen before.
Morf correctly IMO says the name is TROUT. Tuna, shrimp, salmon, etc. are no help to me at all. Crab, yellowfin, snapper, no help. Swordfish, grouper, no help at all for TH as Z. There's only one fish that could be my guy: TROUT. And what does Morf see: TROUT.
Actually, I'd never thought of it before: Troy Houghton - Trout? I wonder if that was his nickname.
Then I see Herald spelled as Herold. Z wants us to notice Herold. Why? Because Harold is Troy's middle name (actually his first name). Again, a direct hit for TH.
Then I see the stamp: who is it? Oh, Marianne Moore, and Z obviously picked it out for a reason. What are the initials? MM -- precisely how the Minutemen abbreviated their organization: MM. So again, a direct hit. It always works for one simple reason: when you have the right guy, it all fits together perfectly. Every clue Z left fits TH because TH was leaving the clues about his ID. That's why everything and I mean everything on the Halloween Card fits TH perfectly.

This is the Zodiac killer mere days after he murdered Cheri Jo Bates. It always chills me. He looks just like the cat who ate the canary:



And can't you understand how Mageau could mistake this person for A Leigh Allen?

rand wrote:

This is the Zodiac killer mere days after he murdered Cheri Jo Bates. It always chills me. He looks just like the cat who ate the canary:



And can't you understand how Mageau could mistake this person for A Leigh Allen?

He has not been proven as the Zodiac Killer. Why would you make such an outlandish claim?
Why can't we all keep an open mind and not let things get to this lunacy?

Caresut, you're so predictable. To me, the lunacy is that you can't see what I've put right before your eyes. And if LE ever solves the case, you'll find out what I already know: it was TH. Why do I know? It's all in this thread. If you don't understand why the proof is here, let my try to help you understand. First, it would be statistically impossible for everything I've shown to point to one person alone and it not be the person who committed the crimes. Second, try to understand how theories are tested and validated. You have a theory and you ask: what are the observable implications if the theory is true? I find the guy, Troy Houghton, then I learn more about him and everything I find out fits Z. Not little things, not general things, not obvious things. No, they are very peculiar, idiosyncratic things, e.g., TH shot the tires out of a car when someone was in the car; someone he didn't know. Z says he will shoot the tires out of a bus. Things like that. Many, many, many things like that. Like the fact that the original Z use of the crosshair was not associated with Zodiac. It was, however, a crosshair symbol that MM had been putting on cars in the Bay area in 1968. Just months before LHR.
Moreover, if the theory is true, it will shed light on things we either didn't understand or thought that we understood but didn't.
What I know about TH explains what we didn't know or understand about Zodiac. What precisely? Look at the thread and you'll see for yourself.

Here are a couple of examples.
I was stumped. Why did Z kill Stine on the day that he did? I have the other dates figured out, but not that one. And they won't mean anything if I can't understand the meaning of Stine's murder. Because if one of the four days is meaningless, then there's no reason to suspect that any of the dates matters. So I email Seagull and ask: What was Bettie Houghton's birthday? She looks it up and writes back: October 11th. BULLSEYE! I had a 1 in 365 chance of getting that day, and I got it right on the button. Do you see? Do you understand?

Consider what happened today, a typical example of why I know I'm right. I see the cipher and, according to Morf, it says TROUT. TROY HOUGHTON - TROUT. It also has Herold - Harold Troy Houghton; the person's name on the stamp has the initials MM - MM for Minutemen. It works everytime. If you can't see what I'm telling you, what is contained in these 64 pages of the thread, well...what can I say...that's, to use your words, "lunacy." If you want to believe that I'm just making things up, that my claims are outlandish, it's your right to be wrong. You can be loud wrong if you want (and you tend to do that). That's fine. It won't change a thing.

Rand, I'm not biting at your kneecaps. I am calling you full of shit. You put together a nice
theory but that is all it is. I have never done anything but point out your mistakes and
leaps of logic. Why have you never done that to me? I may not be a full professor but I
understand how to not make OUTLANDISH claims and not prove out my theories.
I am not trying to be a dick but you have made an outlandish claim.
You may not believe me but I respect most of what you have found. Great stuff.
Doubt you will buy that but I gave it a shot, lol.

There's no need to point out that the case remains unsolved. Unless and until we have physical proof that a POI was indeed the Zodiac killer, all we have is theory and conjecture. I know that; you know that; we all know that. But I'm 100% positive that TH was Z. If someone would go get some DNA from one of his two living sons, then we could all go home satisfied that we got our man. OR you can be satisfied that I'm full of shit. Either way, your day will be made, right? It's so simple. But you have to make sure you get the actual DNA from one of his two living sons. That's all you need to do. I know it will solve the case once and for all.

rand wrote:

There's no need to point out that the case remains unsolved. Unless and until we have physical proof that a POI was indeed the Zodiac killer, all we have is theory and conjecture. I know that; you know that; we all know that. But I'm 100% positive that TH was Z. If someone would go get some DNA from one of his two living sons, then we could all go home satisfied that we got our man.

Okie-Dokie Mr professor. May wanna reread that? Is the case unsolved or are you 100% positive it is.
Have you ever worked away from your university? Answer honestly as I know you have a history of
being kinda full of shit.

Full Professor my ass..haven't we seen enough of Bland's infantile attitude an looney theories on ZKZ,ZKF,ZK.com,Bystander,ect ect,to realize he's stuck on stupid...Wasting your time Caresut,best to leave him to his delusions IMO...

caresut wrote:

rand wrote:

There's no need to point out that the case remains unsolved. Unless and until we have physical proof that a POI was indeed the Zodiac killer, all we have is theory and conjecture. I know that; you know that; we all know that. But I'm 100% positive that TH was Z. If someone would go get some DNA from one of his two living sons, then we could all go home satisfied that we got our man.

Okie-Dokie Mr professor. May wanna reread that? Is the case unsolved or are you 100% positive it is.
Have you ever worked away from your university? Answer honestly as I know you have a history of
being kinda full of shit.

You do sound a bit like Kevin Brooks, he too said the case was solved and he was wrong. He even had prints of his guy. You have nothing physical.

There's a lot of neat information/circumstantial evidence that can be interpreted to fit TH as Z. But then again, Tom has a lot of neat information that could fit Gaik, AKW has a lot of neat information that could fit Ted K, Howard has a lot of neat info that fits Bruce D and most investigators in LE with more evidence and info than we will ever have had enough to firmly believe and bet their lives that ALA was Z. We could find more to fit Edward Wayne Evans or Don Bujok, etc, etc. At least the rest of these guys were proven alive in 1969.

The point is that with the thousands of bits of evidence/clues/loony taunts that Z gave us, there are hundreds of guys that we could fit 50 interesting links to. Most of the time we call it zynchronicity rather than claiming we know 100% who Z was.

Rand you said 'someone' needs to get DNA from one of his sons. I am not going to do it and nobody else is going to do it. Its up to you. As part of CODIS they also have thousands of unidentified bodies so you can tell them by doing a cotton cheek swab there is a chance they will be able to learn if their father is dead and/or if he was or was not Zodiac.

It also helps to know if your Person of Interest was even alive to actually commit the Zodiac Killings 1968-1969.

rand wrote:

I see the cipher and, according to Morf, it says TROUT. TROY HOUGHTON - TROUT. It also has Herold - Harold Troy Houghton; the person's name on the stamp has the initials MM - MM for Minutemen. It works everytime. If you can't see what I'm telling you, what is contained in these 64 pages of the thread, well...what can I say...that's, to use your words, "lunacy."

Trout = Troy Houghton??? That's a stretch.

Rand,

This negativity comes from saying "I'm 100% positive TH is the Zodiac".

If you can't see your comments and posts (TH tieing to Zodiac) are just assumptions then I don't know what else to say! Stuff like "Zodiac said he would shoot a tire, and Troy shot a tire"....I'm sorry, but this means nothing. Along with a lot of other things you bring up. Put them all together, they are interesting, but that doesn't prove a thing.

I've heard this before. We are all ignorant and not smart enough to see it.

I commend you for your work with Troy, but I am sooooo tired of soooo many people saying I KNOW I AM RIGHT with nothing to offer, but a bunch of assumptions!

Put it out there, say that you are fascinated by this man and think he could be involved, etc., but the "I am right and you are all fools if you don't see what is right in front of your face" is not going to get supporters--not that you need them.

I KNOW I AM RIGHT.........

THOTH...

I know I'm right. R maybe I'm left. Maybe..... both? [ what the, those dam flying monkeys R in my Calif king eating my Little Debbie Blueberry muffins and drinking my Starbuck mocha coffee... watching abc news] GREAT#1 DID YOU LET THOSE FLYING OUT?

Rand being a little less dogmatic might actually help interest more people in your POI. I think that is what people are saying. Yes you have some good circumstantial evidence, but that only gets you so far. There are good circumstantial cases against other suspects.

Look the best I can tell you is get DNA from one of his sons, and I will see what I can do with my contacts about getting it compared. I will do the best I can and I think I can get it done. Then we will know if TH was Z or not.

Abby normal - interesting approach, however I don´t see his name matching the cipher yet. Will read more about the minutemen issue...

WoodeniglooII, why can you be sure the cipher is a hoax?

QT

Quagmire wrote:

There's a lot of neat information/circumstantial evidence that can be interpreted to fit TH as Z. But then again, Tom has a lot of neat information that could fit Gaik, AKW has a lot of neat information that could fit Ted K, Howard has a lot of neat info that fits Bruce D and most investigators in LE with more evidence and info than we will ever have had enough to firmly believe and bet their lives that ALA was Z. We could find more to fit Edward Wayne Evans or Don Bujok, etc, etc. At least the rest of these guys were proven alive in 1969.

The point is that with the thousands of bits of evidence/clues/loony taunts that Z gave us, there are hundreds of guys that we could fit 50 interesting links to. Most of the time we call it zynchronicity rather than claiming we know 100% who Z was.

I understand what you're saying Quagmire, and Tahoe, and AK, etc. But, IMO, there's a qualitative difference in the things that tie TH to Z and the supposed things that tie the other suspects to Z. What are those things you're wondering? There are so many. But to make the point as succinctly as I can, I will once again point you in the direction of the Halloween Card. Z said that he would clue us in to his identity with the imagery that he painstakingly put on the card. And every clue on that card points to TH. Not ALA, not Bruce, not Ted K., but to TH. Clues we didn't even see prior to TH as a POI. There are practically a dozen clues on that card. How can every one point to TH? Of course, people will say: Rand, I don't see what you see! So you don't see a flasher. Okay. I clearly do. You don't see a strange symbol composed of an F and L with four dots. Okay. I do. FL for flasher; four dots for four teens (4-TEEN), precisely the number of "teens" that TH was convicted in two trials of flashing. Note also that the F and L symbol looks like a stylized version of the skeleton flashing above it (once again, the clue that the skeleton is flashing and this is Z's strange symbol for himself, the flasher -- one of his three identities. What are the other two, you ask? The Z for Zodiac, of course; and the cross-hair symbol for the Minutemen. His three identities neatly put next to each other where his signature on the card would be.
Then there's the figure on the back of the card composed of a t and H.
There are the fingers on the skeleton's hands, which he placed in their position, pointing to TH and ME.
And so on, and so on, and so on.

Then there are the four dates of the crimes. I'm not going to mention how they relate to TH again -- you've all probably memorized it by now. But c'mon. How do the dates perfectly fit ANY -- any? -- of the other POIs? They don't. Remember, I found out most of the things that connect TH to Z after I had TH as a suspect. This is how it should be: you find the guy first; then ask: if he was Z, what should I find? Then you look at the evidence and it should fits what you know about the POI, the clues should fit the POI, and the POI's identity should shed light on the things you hadn't seen before.

I could go on and on and on about how every missive Z sent has a clue that fits TH and no one else to a tee.
That's the difference. I'm all ears if someone (other than AK re Ted K) wants to compare on this thread the evidence of their POI against TH. Show me how the dates relate to their POI. Show me how the clues Z left point to their POI. Go ahead. Be my guest. Otherwise, it's just equivocation. And that's what I always get from people who want to gainsay what I've put on this thread. They say: "Just as you have circumstantial evidence for TH, we have circumstantial evidence for x, y, and z. That doesn't make them Z." True, because it's not very good or compelling circumstantial evidence.

Does anything I have on TH PROVE he's Z. No. But I'm 100% convinced. There are way, way too many coincidences. Dozens and dozens too many. As for my not being able to say definitively that TH was dead or alive, TH said weeks before he disappeared that he was going underground with a Little List. He did just what he said he'd do, and how Z-like is that?

rand wrote:

I'm all ears if someone (other than AK re Ted K) wants to compare on this thread the evidence of their POI against TH.

Not my poi but I think a good compare. Reasons are obvious.

morf13 wrote:

caresut wrote:

rand wrote:

There's no need to point out that the case remains unsolved. Unless and until we have physical proof that a POI was indeed the Zodiac killer, all we have is theory and conjecture. I know that; you know that; we all know that. But I'm 100% positive that TH was Z. If someone would go get some DNA from one of his two living sons, then we could all go home satisfied that we got our man.

Okie-Dokie Mr professor. May wanna reread that? Is the case unsolved or are you 100% positive it is.
Have you ever worked away from your university? Answer honestly as I know you have a history of
being kinda full of shit.

You do sound a bit like Kevin Brooks, he too said the case was solved and he was wrong. He even had prints of his guy. You have nothing physical.

Kevin was wrong, as I said he would be, because I am certain that I know the identity of the killer and it wasn't his guy. Who cares if he had prints of his guy? How does that make him a better suspect than TH? TH had prints too; I'm just not in possession of them.

Regarding caresut's questions: huh? Have I ever worked away from my university? I have a history of being kinda full of shit? About what? Once again, I'm all ears. What on earth is caresut talking about or hinting at with these questions?
As for what caresut thinks is a logical inconsistency, there is none. I admitted that the case remains unsolved, but I'm also certain that, if and when it is solved, Z will be shown to have been TH. Put differently, I'm convinced that I know who the killer was; but I can't prove it without physical evidence, so the case remains unsolved. What is logically inconsistent about that statement?

PS: I just watched the video above. The skeleton DONNED PUMPKIN BREECHES. uh, ok. Kevin produces little tidbits of things that he believes tie his POI to Z. But his theories are built on a gossamer-like foundation. So little about what is important in the clues (e.g., those on the HC or Exorcist letter, which he raises in the video) and about the case in general point to his POI.
What do I mean? Okay, ask yourself: Why did Zodiac care about time? Kevin mentions the Exorcist card. Why did Z put a clock on the Exorcist envelope? How does Don Bujok explain or shed light on Z's emphasis in his letters to time? He doesn't. How does TH explain it? The MINUTEmen. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that Z intentionally left his watch at the CJB crime scene to taunt LE with the clue: the watch means a Minuteman was here.
In his later letter he said: I TOLD HER IT WAS TIME...TIME FOR HER TO DIE.

Sorry Rand, You did some great research, just please, please don't write a book until
you have something solid. I probably shouldn't have been so hard on you but you
claim it is solved and that is just not the case. Your mentioning Ak and TedK does nothing
to help your theory, imo, as it is just as silly. Lets be honest here!

I need some help.
The days of the murders coincide with important dates regarding Troy Houghton's immediate family:
1. LHR - The night of Troy's first born son's birthday
2. BRS - July 4th: the most significant day for the Minutemen
3. LB - 3 days prior to Troy's birthday, which fell on a Tuesday
4. Stine's murder - His wife's, Bettie Houghton's, birthday

So it occurs to me that the day that Bettie and Troy got married should be a date that is important to the case.
I know that they were married in 1955, but I don't know the day. Can someone help me with this?
Here's some info.
Troy H. Houghton (DOB 9-30-33) and Bettie E. Jones (maiden name).
Date of Birth: 10/11/1935. They married in 1955.
I'm guessing it was the middle of April (just a hunch).

Sorry, I could not find a marriage record for them only the divorce record

Was his first name actually Troy??

Name: Harold Troy Houghton
Birth Date: 30 Sep 1933
Gender: Male
Mother's Maiden Name: Alderman
Birth County: Los Angeles