Gaul and Sharp

With the Gyke news the other day I had posted that JP worked for the Albany Times Union, I found it strange that out of all the papers in the US they should receive a letter purporting to be from the Zodiac. There are several pages about it starting File 4, page 119 of the FBI files. There could be another possible link.

Gaul and Sharp were killed on November 21st 1969, the Albany Times Union staffers provided the LA police with details to assist in the identification of Gaul. In 73 the letter was sent. The interesting thing about the letter was that it included a cipher which read "(First part blanked out)Albany Medical Center, This only the beginning." We know that a letter was found amongst items belonging to Gaul supposedly coming from the Zodiac killer. Here is a map of the Albany Medical Centre and Stratton VA Medical Centre.

The interesting part is that the street that runs along the top Myrtle Avenue is where Doreen Gaul and her family lived, https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/i/snapshot20100526202737.png/ the red A marks their house. Could Doreen really have known her killer and did she meet him as he visited the Medical Centre. Why the Zodiac letter left in her room and four years later the note to the Albany Times mentioning the Medical Centre within spitting distance of her house.

File 4,page 122 states that the FBI could not eliminate the possibility that the person that had written the Times Union note was the same as the person who had written the Zodiac letters.

I have always been interested in the GAUL/SHARP case. I also have been surprised that the GYKE supporters never looked more at this case.
The letter in her room was typed- all caps, like the Confession letter.

morf13 wrote:

I have always been interested in the GAUL/SHARP case. I also have been surprised that the GYKE supporters never looked more at this case.
The letter in her room was typed- all caps, like the Confession letter.

By the way, and maybe I am wrong, but didnt Zodiac say something to Hartnell at Berryessa that the "time is getting short" ?

Shall need to look up Hartnells interview, also Doreen had been involved with some kind of local free press in Albany before moving to LA. I would love to know what the blacked out part is just before Albany Medical Centre, it could be a name. Why did she move to LA?, did someone recommend it?, then there is the Scientologists and the manner of her and James Sharps death (there was also another unknown person who died with them).

Been looking up Scientology all day, John Mcmasters a major scientologist and the first 'clear' wrote a letter to Hubbard appalled at what was happening within Scientology he announced that he was leaving Hubbard's ships to spread Scientology in Africa, because of his "horror at what such people on the Sea Org could do to mankind."

Quote from Clambake :He criticized Hubbard and Scientology for their "savage and vicious ethics" and seemed particularly perturbed over the death of the three Los Angeles teen-agers. Their deaths may have partially precipitated McMasters' decision to dissociate himself from certain aspects of Scientology. "Somehow we are violating our basic ethics for such things to happen to us," he wrote. "These last two ghastly murders of our students, one of whom is a clear, need never have happened if we hadn't been mocking up [making] enemies so solidly."

The Sea Org (One of Hubbards ships) that Hubbard was domiciled on had originally been called The Royal Scotsman but was changed in August 1968 to 'Apollo'.

morf13 wrote:

morf13 wrote:

I have always been interested in the GAUL/SHARP case. I also have been surprised that the GYKE supporters never looked more at this case.
The letter in her room was typed- all caps, like the Confession letter.

By the way, and maybe I am wrong, but didnt Zodiac say something to Hartnell at Berryessa that the "time is getting short" ?

Interesting observation!

And, according to the Cheri Jo Bates killer, in his "Confession" letter, he stated that this conversation had taken place:

killer: "it is about time"

CJB: "about time for what?"

killer: "it is about time for you to die"

Someone else was thinking the same thing as me.

Here is a 2001 post on ZK.com

"Howard -- for the benefit of our readers, Pat Tan was a young traveler found dead in mid-April 1970 near the Trailside Killer's turf on Mt. Tamalpais. She had been asphixiated by a rope and an extension cord tied to a tree branch on a steep hill. The cops weren't even sure if she had been murdered, and the only evidence that she hadn't simply tied off and thrown herself down the hill was the relative complexity of the knots used. Aside from speculation that the Zodiac was a sailor (hence the knots) and the "By rope" reference in the Halloween Card, what exactly leads you to believe this might have been Z's work?
The Gaul letter reads like something out of a Columbine High diary -- "SO YOU THINK YOU CAN FOOL THE OLD KILLER HA HA I KNOW ALL YOUR MOVEMENTS AND THE TIME THEY ARE MADE..." There is a "Z" typed near the closing, but the letter is signed "THE ZODIAC KILLER," which is what the newspapers called our guy. As we all know, the true Zodiac referred to himself simply and uniformly as "The Zodiac," and used his moniker at the beginning, not the end, of his missives. The strange symbols doodled on the Gaul letter look kind of like deflated balloons falling to earth in neat rows, and do not resemble anything out of any of the cryptograms. The one possible link to Z is the phrase "TIME IS SHORT," which is similar to something uttered by Z at Lake Berryessa; here, it is followed by the advice "ENJOY LIFE WHILE YOU CAN." "

Yes...A time to die.

morf13 wrote:

I have always been interested in the GAUL/SHARP case. I also have been surprised that the GYKE supporters never looked more at this case.
The letter in her room was typed- all caps, like the Confession letter.

In this "Zodiac note" there is written:

"HA HA"

and

"YOU ARE TO BEAUTIFUL TO LIVE AND I MUST KILL YOU"





I Googled : "you are too beautiful to live"

And found this play by Tennessee Williams : "The Milk Train Doesn’t Stop Here Anymore"


http://wwwelib.komazawa-u.ac.jp/cgi-bin/retrieve/sr_bookview.cgi/U_CHARSET.utf-8/XC00710025/Body/link/jsb001_1-03.pdf

Tennessee Williams

"The Milk Train Doesn’t Stop Here Anymore"



Tennessee Williams 1911-1983 The Milk Train Doesn’t Stop Here Anymore

1964, New York, Brooks Atkinson Theatre

Quote from the play:

BLACKIE: Did he keep the sword on him at breakfast?

MRS. GOFIRTH: Yes he did and sometimes he’d draw it out of the scabbard and poke

me with it. Ho ho. Tickle me with the point of it, ho ho ho ho!

BLACKIE: You weren’t afraid he’d-accidentally?

MRS. GOFORTH: Sure, and it was exciting. I had me a little revolver. I’d draw a bead

on him sometimes and I’d say, you are too beautiful to live, and so you have to die, now,

tonight-tomorrow-



Here is info on the play and Tennessee Williams:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Milk_Train_Doesn%27t_Stop_Here_Anymore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Williams

Good Find FOREIGNER! If that note was from Z, it wouldnt surprise me that he would use a movie or play reference

the little symbols that are drawn on the ending of the typed letter - looks like there are 2 faces on the top left possibly....wondered also if the number of bubbles, nooses, or whatever they are rep the # of killings?
I know that scalps were taken and hung from belts and spears w/native americans + cowboys; some soldiers in Viet Nam cut off ears and put them on necklaces when they killed someone

NAVOJO, native indians, "TIME" symbol:


http://www.cuentoseningles.com.ar/articles/business/goodwill.html

This Navajo symbol represents "Days, and Nights". It stands for "Time".





Interesting is that the person "Chris" aka "Angel Of Death" in the "Tennessee Williams: The Milk Train Doesn′t Stop Here Anymore" play: "has translated a ,,Swami" book (the book of an Indian philosopher)"

http://www.hausarbeiten.de/faecher/vorschau/100906.html

Christopher ,,Chris" Flanders, ,,Angel of Death": 34 years old (160b), has translated a ,,Swami" book (the book of an Indian philosopher) (160m, 194t), designs mobiles (160t). His vocation is to visit rich old Ladies that are about to die and help them through it (220m). He is an ambiguous character (183m).

TF the Navajo are American Indians and I think that Swami book is refering to Indians from India, two different continients.

The idea of the Tennessee Williams play is very interesting. The dialogue is spot on. That's a great find.

Seagull wrote:

TF the Navajo are American Indians and I think that Swami book is refering to Indians from India, two different continients.

The idea of the Tennessee Williams play is very interesting. The dialogue is spot on. That's a great find.

You´r absolutely right Seagull, sorry I missed that, and thanks for the correction,

"TOO BEAUTFUL TO LIVE" from Charles Dickens seen here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=glUpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA310&dq=%22too+beautiful+to+live%22&hl=en&ei=cOL_S7G_GYK88gaIlb3xDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22too%20beautiful%20to%20live%22&f=false

"Too Beautiful to live" a Joseph Anthony Poem seen here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=z2QCAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA53&dq=%22too+beautiful+to+live%22&hl=en&ei=cOL_S7G_GYK88gaIlb3xDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22too%20beautiful%20to%20live%22&f=false

"SHE WAS TOO BEAUTIFUL TO LIVE" by By Reuben Percy, John Timbs, seen here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=xr4RAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA114&dq=%22too+beautiful+to+live%22&hl=en&ei=cOL_S7G_GYK88gaIlb3xDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22too%20beautiful%20to%20live%22&f=false

And this one may be best of all. The life and adventures of Nicholas Nickleby, Part 1 By David Edgar, Charles Dickens.

Here's some character lines-

MRS KENWIGS- "Oh yes, Oh yes, they are too beautiful"

LILLYVICK- 'Too beautiful for what my dear?"

MRS KENWIGS- "Too beautiful to live"

THIS REMINDS ME OF THE CONFESSION LETTER WHERE THE WRITER SAID "I SAID IT WAS ABOUT TIME" "SHE ASKED ME ABOUT TIME FOR WHAT" "I SAID IT WAS ABOUT TIME FOR HER TO DIE"
Here is the link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=9jYz2BecS3sC&pg=PA88&dq=%22too+beautiful+to+live%22&hl=en&ei=cOL_S7G_GYK88gaIlb3xDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=%22too%20beautiful%20to%20live%22&f=false

Visit the link above, then scroll down a little ways, and some of the terms include " I SHALL" and mentions a poem.

Zodiac used monikers like, a citizen,rh,a friend,the "killer"(July 31 69),me,red phantom R.P.,Zodiac -Z,symbol -three in number to render Zodiac in symbol .
He called himself the killer in the July 31 letter/s as well as the murderer.So it no stretch to call himself the Zodiac Killer!
The symbols do not have to come from something Z already placed on paper.The Halloween 4 dot symbol is one example.It was 'new.'He was well capable of adapting and did so.
I did a post on this. Dave Peterson did feel the ten 'nooses' (there was the song Chains FYI) were Deltas as Z had done before only more distorted.

Puncuation is Z like-no periods at times,for example.

A Z is in the letter.This was rare for Zodiac to use. It was used twice to my knowledge.This would make it three.

Note it was a 'copy' not an original (as was the Confession a copy too) that LT.Deemer found. Actually,it was one of Deemer's men. He would not give us the name though as we tried to get him to do it. It was never turned in as evidence so he was concerned being a perfectionist (so many years 'just talk' was our argument!)except by us many years later along with the missing murder book of Deemer.

Note an L is used in place of an I which is Z like.Then another L out of place!

I will take Tennesse Williams as BD was brought up in TN and the writer was well known there-so it's mine LOL

Typing in all upper case as we have with Confession.The 'to" in the Gaul letter should have been a too as in the Confession,which said to instead of too. Both writers made same error.There is at least one typing error not unlike a Z. See my post on this site.

CM used the same line 'you are too beautiful to live' to Diane Lake on one occasion as found in the Family by Ed Sanders.

Two other streets I failed to mention in my post on Gaul/Sharp/LB and RS were Knox Rd.at LB)and Riverside Dr.relative to the 11/21/69 Gaul murder. In Z knife threads.

I have given my views in detail on Pat Tan in my book as well as Zkiller.com.

Found this in my never ending search of symbols to match the batwing. I don't think it's meant to be one of the symbols in this letter but it caught my attention when I saw it and made me think of it.

Traveler, RE: the Batman angle, one of the Lake Herman Rd 'witnesses', James Owen, has the birthday of June 14. On June 14, 1967, they replayed the Batman vs zodiac episode on tv. Maybe another zyncronicity.

""The Zodiac Crimes" is the seventy-first episode of the Batman television series. It first aired on ABC January 11, 1967 in its second season and repeated June 14, 1967"

Also, one thing I noticed, there was an episode of Batman called 'BATMAN IS RILED'.


Z used the term "rile you up" in one of his letters.

I 'd seen that batman connection mentioned before. I must have a read into that. Not sure there's anything to it but hey, it mentions Zodiac before Zodiac does so that's interesting enough for me.

Seeing the title 'Batman is riled' actually made me smile. Not only is it quite an unusual title but there's something quaint about it - ie 'old fashioned' so I wonder if that was one of the terms LE were referring to when they talked about Z using old fashioned phrases.

BTW 'batwing' is just my name for the symbol on the halloween card and not a ref to batman but rather it was just what it first reminded me of. 2 dots for eyes, 2 for fangs and one odd wing.

Adam West has quite a monotone voice.

traveller1st wrote:

I 'd seen that batman connection mentioned before. I must have a read into that. Not sure there's anything to it but hey, it mentions Zodiac before Zodiac does so that's interesting enough for me.

Seeing the title 'Batman is riled' actually made me smile. Not only is it quite an unusual title but there's something quaint about it - ie 'old fashioned' so I wonder if that was one of the terms LE were referring to when they talked about Z using old fashioned phrases.

BTW 'batwing' is just my name for the symbol on the halloween card and not a ref to batman but rather it was just what it first reminded me of. 2 dots for eyes, 2 for fangs and one odd wing.

Adam West has quite a monotone voice.

Thanks Trav, interesting post & thoughts! I'm still pondering it...

The best and most connected with a legion of parallels to BM and Z was done by prof.Edwuard in Holland. It may be found on a recovery site like Back to the future? I could write him again.

As to the Zodiac killer typed note we found through Lt.Deemer,and is posted on our site. Magnolia Av.was a prominent street connected to the Gaul/Sharp murder. In RS same for CJB case. Note they were dumped in an alley and in the '66 (turn the second 6 upside down and you have a 9 1969 time of couple murder) Confession "alley" is mentioned as to a possible victim.

If anyone has any questions please post them.

bruce3 wrote:

The best and most connected with a legion of parallels to BM and Z was done by prof.Edwuard in Holland. It may be found on a recovery site like Back to the future? I could write him again.

As to the Zodiac killer typed note we found through Lt.Deemer,and is posted on our site. Magnolia Av.was a prominent street connected to the Gaul/Sharp murder. In RS same for CJB case. Note they were dumped in an alley and in the '66 (turn the second 6 upside down and you have a 9 1969 time of couple murder) Confession "alley" is mentioned as to a possible victim.

If anyone has any questions please post them.

Thanks Howard! Eduard just joined this site, so hopefully he will add his information. I know he had a seven day waiting period as a new member to post his stuff.
What makes Magnolia Ave a prominent st. (I best go read up on your site for this info!)

Zama,
In RS Magnolia Av.runs parallel with RSCC where Cheri was murdered. In L.A. the Silverlake district where Gaul and Sharp with a knife were killed, a Magnolia Av.runs- as in RS- very close to and parallel with the alley where both victims in Silverlake were found. Cheri was killed in an alley with a knife and in the Confession it warns about 'keeping females' away from alleys and off the streets and the writer mentions a young female going down an alley.
But,I see a hybrid of sorts and also a connection to LB.The most open clue is the typed all upper case characters written in November like the Confession -one in '66 and the other very terse version in '69,but reverse the 6 in 1966 and you get 69 or 1969 November! Both misspell too and incorrectly use to.. Both speak of the victim's beauty. Both show an interest in a victim's schedule,etc.
I am thankful LT.Deemer failed to turn it in (he would not tell us which det.that worked under him found it-it got tucked into his 'murder book' as he called it begging the excuse he was 'up to his... in murders' (there were lot's of 187's in this book as he called them too!) so it was 'lost' in that book-we later turned this infamous book which was lost and the note to the Rampart Division where Deemer was connected) or we would not have gotten this '69 note.

Since BD (he lived down the hall very close to Doreen and was Deemer's main suspect in the Silverlake couple murder and this short note was found in Gaul's room amongst her 'belongings'after her death there has to be a good link.If asny other Z suspect was staying there or the Scientology Manor it would be shouted on the house tops!

In our book there are more details and it's been on sale for only 5.00$! I am bringing copies up to the North Bay this holiday. Someone can save on postage.

Not that I trust Zodiac's scorekeeping at all but I thought it would be interesting to look at this crime in relation to Zodiac's reported body count in his letters.

11/8/69: "DES JULY AUG SEPT OCT= 7"

12/20/69: "I am afraid I will loose control again and take my nineth and posibly tenth victom"

In other words, Zodiac appears to be claiming 7 victims two weeks before the murders of Sharp & Gaul and 8 victims a month later so it doesn't quite match with his own scorecard.

entropy wrote:

Not that I trust Zodiac's scorekeeping at all but I thought it would be interesting to look at this crime in relation to Zodiac's reported body count in his letters.

11/8/69: "DES JULY AUG SEPT OCT= 7"

12/20/69: "I am afraid I will loose control again and take my nineth and posibly tenth victom"

In other words, Zodiac appears to be claiming 7 victims two weeks before the murders of Sharp & Gaul and 8 victims a month later so it doesn't quite match with his own scorecard.

He was full of shit I think, but who knows.

The main things in the Gaul & Sharp case that seems interesting is the fact that a typed note from somebody calling themself Zodiac was found in the victim's room-that and the fact that Gaul was from the city of Albany, NY...the same town Ferrin, Crabtree, Gaikowski had all stayed at. Not to mention that Gaul lived a stone's throw(literally) from the Albany medical center. The Albany medical center was mentioned in one letter/cipher that was sent from somebody in Albany calling themselves Zodiac. That's pretty interesting.

All that being said, I have talked extensively, and multiple times with an L.A. cold case Detective that is quite confident that they know the ID of the two killers and there is no apparent connection to the Z case. This is what she passed along to me, word for word-

"This is a brutal 1969 double murder of two teens (19-year-old female and 15-year-old male) who were kidnapped and murdered while walking to the Scientology Church. It appeared that the female victim was sexually assaulted. Both were stabbed multiple times and bludgeoned with a tire jack. A suspect, James G., was arrested in 1975 on an unrelated offense and confessed to being at the crime scene with another suspect, Arthur D. James G.confessed because he “wanted to get it off his chest” and told detectives that he was forced at gunpoint to participate by Arthur D. Detectives suspected that James G. was not being truthful as to his actual participation in the murders (ie he was a willing participant rather than forced). Although James G. story was very detailed and accurate, Detectives were not able to corroborate his story with the case evidence. The original detectives worked this case vigorously until 1980 and even attempted to file the case with the DA. The DA’s office did not file the case due to lack of evidence. I contacted Property Division when I was reviewing this case and discovered that all evidence in this case was authorized for destruction on 1/27/97. I am still trying to determine if a latent print package exists on this case. Both suspects appear to be alive. Arthur D. is in his 80’s and James G. is in his 60’s."

Now if somebody wanted to really ignite a fire.....find a positive connection that shows Ferrin, Crabtree, or Gaikowski, knowing or being acquainted with Doreen Gaul from their time in Albany. That would really powerful.

Oh, and lest we forget, there is a guy named JOSEPH MAHAR from Albany, NY in Darlene's address book who had been in the military and was stationed in the SF bay area (before the z murders). He was arrested for attacking/robbing people at gunpoint at a bar in the SF area back in the 1950's. This guy is dead, so I am not afraid to throw his name or photo out there. Certainly, being an Albany resident, this guy could have sent a Z letter in Albany.


I will NOT be surprised if there is a connection between Zodiac & the city of Albany...there are just too many clues pointing to that city.